By Livia Malcangio*
I am sitting here today with His Excellency Josè Ramos-Horta, President of the Republic of Timor-Leste for the second time. He has served his beloved country throughout his whole life, as the prime minister, as the minister for foreign affairs, but mostly as a human rights defender and extraordinary mediator in times of invasions and search for independence of his country. President Ramos-Horta is first of all a world champion of social justice, and of course a Nobel Peace Prize winner, who has put his life at the service of compassion, diplomacy, and reconciliation among countries. With the President, we share a strong passion for peace education and for sitting in bookstores like ‘Barnes and Nobles’, reading books for hours with a nice cup of coffee, isn’t it so, Mr President?
True! It’s my great pleasure to share with you my personal observations and my experience. I read your book Being Nobel, obviously, and while reading it, it reminded me of the challenges that each of the Nobel Peace Laureates had to face, and the difficulties to achieve peace, and also to secure peace once it is achieved, because often peace is fragile and it’s not just a decree or a law, it has to deal with people’s emotions, with political leadership, with the community, and with other nations. I myself have witnessed all that, particularly when I did my first mediation in Colombia more than twenty years ago and more recently in Guinea Bissau as the special envoy of the UN Secretary-General. So I understand the challenges in real life.
Mr President, let’s speak about the urgent need for peace education, to be included in academic curricula, that can be done through books and story telling, for example through your life and activism. As a matter of fact, history has been written and is still taught as a story in which the pursuit of war, expansion, and power is emphasised. With book Being Nobel, for instance, I try to teach contemporary history through the courageous stories of world champions like you, highlighting the values of fair play, compassion, commitment, and vision for a better future for all fellow citizens. What can be done to enhance the values of peace among students and young people?
I have participated in endless peace talks and meetings over the last decades, and sometimes I ask myself whether we have been effective, because the world is really getting worse instead of getting better. Sometimes it is very frustrating, but there are inspiring successful stories like the one of my country Timor-Leste in that if leaders persist, if they lead with integrity, vision, and compassion, with credibility and authority, then people listen and follow them. And there are many other successful stories around the world.
Yet, we are overwhelmed by problems. Ukraine, Myanmar, Gaza, Yemen, Syria, South Sudan, the terrible problem of child trafficking, child labour, child slavery, tens of millions of children who are abused, kidnapped, sold. The list of these situations can discourage anyone, but instead we should wake up as human beings and do more. Peace education is very important already in early school, so that when children grow up they shall have a full understanding of other cultures, religions, and societies, so that they can easily reject violence. There are many peace education examples. In Timor-Leste we became the first country in the world to adopt by a vote through our national parliament the ‘Declaration of Human Fraternity’ written by His Holiness Pope Francis and the Grand Imam of Al-Azhar, Cairo. Pope Francis has praised Timor-Leste several times in his speeches. We are now going to adapt the Document for kids with simplified texts and drawings, and then gradually present it until the university level. So with peace education tools like this Document and education curricula such as ‘Leading by Example’ of the Nobel Peace Summit, we can amplify the impact. That is necessary, and it can be done in a long term, but it is necessary, because children will grow up understanding other ethnicities, and we will have a much more fraternal world.
That is also the reason why I decided to write the simplified kids version of book Being Nobel. Because I realised that if we start teaching peace from the university, that is already too late. We need to start from when kids are able to read, so I used some fantasy to describe the stories of ten selected Nobel Peace Laureates, including your story! Actually, would you like to write the foreword of this book?
I will be delighted to write it!
I am about to finish your fairy tale, so be ready to fight against dragons and witches and be defended by fairies… Of course when kids will grow up and be in high school, they will be able to read the actual version of Being Nobel.
You know that the idea behind Being Nobel was to connect each Nobel Prize winner to a celebrity from the world of entertainment, who has done something great in the field of the Nobel prize winner or has something in common. We have Lord Trimble and John Hume connected to Bono, as the three of them worked hard to put an end to “The Troubles” in Northern Ireland; we have FW De Klerk connected to Peter Gabriel for the song “Biko”, or Richard Gere connected to The Dalai Lama. Why have you decided to be connected, when asked, to Mahatma Ghandi instead of a rock star?
In terms of movie stars I know many, for example Oscar Isaac who played “me” in the movie “Balibo”! I just had a coffee with him in NYC a few months ago. But for me, one of the greatest global personalities is Mahatma Ghandi. How could a skinny man, with his intelligence and iron will and the power of his people, manage to force the British empire to leave India? Impressive.
I thought you wanted to be connected to Ghandi to, in a way, give him the Nobel Peace Prize that he much deserved. As we know, he was nominated several times but he never received it. Of course it was a time of colonialism and maybe it was not good for Oslo to award him.
I am not familiar with the secrecy of the Norwegian Nobel Committee, but in the year he died, they were going to award him. Unfortunately for the Committee it is not possible to award someone posthumously.
You also have another thing in common. You both experienced an assassination attempt, where as we all know Ghandi was killed. But you survived instead. Why would they want to kill such a peace maker like you, who has loved his own country for so many years?
In my case it was not premeditated, it was carried out by someone who was under drugs and was defected by the Army. On that particular day, he was coming from the mountains to see me, but I was out. Since he was a defector, my guards, sensing that he was there with hostility, shot him. So when I arrived, upon hearing the shooting, one of his men shot me, thinking that I was the one who had set up a trap by calling him to my home, which was not the case. Later, they all surrendered, regretted, and then I was inspired by pope John Paul II, who was victim of an assassination attempt by a Turkish extremist, and who nevertheless pardoned him and went to see him in jail. I decided to do the same and pardon those who were involved in my assassination attempt. I was criticised by some people in the justice sector, because that act had weakened the justice system.
Mr President, who is your favourite Nobel Peace Prize winner described in my book? Except from yourself of course!
There are so many. I would say Kailash Satyarthi. He has my greatest admiration. From the moment he finished university, he was getting married. He talked to his fiancé about what he wanted to do in his life. Not going to a bank or set up a business, but he wanted to dedicate himself in freeing children from slavery. His fiancé agreed and so from the age of 22 he has dedicated all his life to the cause of children who are slaved, imprisoned, and that requires an immense love and compassion. He has faced many threats, he was attacked, endured difficult times.
Of course there are many others who work silently and you hear about them only when they get the Nobel Peace Prize, for instance.
We have been knowing each other for more than 20 years by now. You attended the World Summit of Nobel Peace Laureates since its first editions in Rome, now we are at the 19th edition. What is the importance for youth to have the chance to meet with the Nobel Peace Laureates?
Meeting with the Laureates is one of the greatest desire in their lives, and particularly if they spend some days listening to them, as it impacts them profoundly and then they eventually become other peace makers. Besides the Nobel Peace Summit, which is definitely a unique experience, there is also the Lindau Nobel Institute of Science. Every year there are about 400 international post-graduate students meeting in a castle in Lindau with Nobel Laureates in Science. When they invited me, they enjoyed listening to me, so that they could connect peace to science. It’s been an amazing experience.
In my visit here in Rome, I met with Pope Francis as he is willing to visit Timor-Leste very soon. My country has the second highest percentage of Catholics in the world after the Vatican State, 99.6%. People are devout Christian and we have zero religious and ethnic tensions. We do have political tensions though, and that’s normal, as only in countries like North Korea there’s no such tensions, as everybody has to agree with Kim Jong-un…But in democracy there has to be political, intellectual tensions, in order to stimulate democratic processes. His Holiness is very pleased with the situation in Timor-Leste. We had a long conversation and we shared some conversations on the world situation. My main focus was on Myanmar. I hope he will do something about Myanmar. The situation is catastrophic, I know this country inside out like no other political leader. I first went to Myanmar in July 1994, the first ever human rights education program in the country was conducted by me, especially in the jungle. The situation is unravelling fast. As I said two years ago already, the military will loose and at least 7,000 military have defected already, many generals have defected, but I am worried about the fragmentation of the country and the collapse of the army because if anarchy prevails that is a huge problem. Prevention doctrine is fundamental and if we want to prevent the worst we need to intervene now. Credible Institutions like the Vatican should act also because Myanmar is very important strategically: it borders with China, India, the West is interested, and it has many natural resources.
And the Pope could be quite impartial as there are very few Catholics there.
There are few but there is a very popular and respected cardinal there. Even is South Korea, catholics are a minority but the cardinal of Seoul is very respected in the whole country. So there are many situations in which the influence of the representatives of the Pope is important. The Vatican has two thousand years of experience and wisdom, they have managed all kinds of conflict situations throughout the centuries.
What is the situation with Aung San Suu Kyi?
She is in prison, mistreated, humiliated, denied regular medical check, a lawyer is allowed to see her from time to time. During the elections of 2020, 17,000 people went to person, over 3,000 killed since the coup, a lot of children, women killed by helicopter attacks, but the military are losing this war because the military are starting to understand the wrong that they are doing.
Thank you Mr. President very much for your time and for allowing me to do this interview with you. Here is the new copy of book Being Nobel for you and thank you for having shared it with other world political leaders.
*Italian journalist, philanthropist, and a human rights activist, Ms. Livia Malcangio has served the Permanent Secretariat of the World Summit of Nobel Peace Laureates as the Director of Institutional & Public Relations for more than twenty years, and has authored the educational book Being Nobel. She maintains a master’s degree in International Relations and Protection of Human Rights from the Italian Society for the International Organization – United Nations’ Association (SIOI).